Brian Bokor

Severine: Before we get into just some questions

about your experience as a Jewish

0:00:03.659,0:00:07.859

student at Davidson, we do have some

formalities because we'd like to save

0:00:07.859,0:00:11.759

this interview in the college archives,

and in order to do that we need your permission.

0:00:11.759,0:00:17.420

So just formally do you consent to being

0:00:17.420,0:00:23.330

recorded during this and do you consent

to this interview being transcribed? Brian Bokor: Sure.

0:00:23.330,0:00:29.070

S: Great and we will give you the

opportunity to listen to this if you'd

0:00:29.070,0:00:34.110

like before we place it in the archives,

but this will be used. We're trying to

0:00:34.110,0:00:39.629

make a website focusing on the

interviews we're getting because

0:00:39.629,0:00:42.500

we're gonna do a lot of oral histories

throughout the duration of this project.

0:00:42.500,0:00:47.489

So I'll keep you posted on where this is

actually going and throughout all of the

0:00:47.489,0:00:51.750

process we'll be completely transparent,

and then after this interview I'll send

0:00:51.750,0:00:57.859

a more formal permission form that you

could fill out if that's all right? B: Sure.

0:00:57.859,0:01:04.470

S: Great! Okay, so this interview will last

for an hour if that's still okay with

0:01:04.470,0:01:07.159

you, correct? B: Yep! I do have to stop at 11, but I have until then so that works.

0:01:11.090,0:01:16.860

Dahlia: Wonderful. And then just just to situate our

recording so the names of our

0:01:16.860,0:01:21.270

interviewers are Severine Stier and Dahila

Krukovitch. The name of our narrator is

0:01:21.270,0:01:27.570

Brian Bokor. B: Yes. D: Wonderful. The location of

our interview: you're in Charlotte. We're

0:01:27.570,0:01:33.570

in Davidson. The date is March 6, 2019, and

the purpose of this interview is to

0:01:33.570,0:01:39.750

archive Jewish experiences at Davidson

throughout the history of Jews at the

0:01:39.750,0:01:44.250

school. So anyway, so getting into things

a little bit do you mind telling us

0:01:44.250,0:01:48.290

about your relationship with Judaism

before you arrived arrived at Davidson?

0:01:48.290,0:02:08.250

B: Sure. I grew up in Clearwater, Florida. My dad is Jewish. My mom was born 00:02:00Catholic. Prior to them getting married, my mom converted to Judaism.

0:02:08.250,0:02:17.800

From when I was born, I

was raised Jewish. I attended Sunday school on a

0:02:17.800,0:02:25.650

regular basis. I Bar Mitzvah'd. But after

about being at the age of fourteen, I

0:02:25.650,0:02:29.980

stopped going to confirmation because

all of a sudden I got into sports. But we did still

0:02:29.980,0:02:39.700

attend the Temple on a

0:02:39.700,0:02:44.290

semi-regular basis, probably once every

six weeks people to get along about a

0:02:44.290,0:02:51.269

night and obviously High Holy days

and other important events whether the

0:02:51.269,0:02:58.620

friends' bar mitzvahs, bah mitzvahs, we would light a candle on anniversaries of

0:02:58.620,0:03:06.610

relatives that have passed and stuff like that. And so we had

we certainly did go I would say probably over

0:03:06.610,0:03:15.090

the course of the 12-month period

probably 8 to 12 times a year. We would go.

0:03:15.090,0:03:27.459

That's kind of my experience going

through there up until I was 18. So that's kind of my pre-Davidson.

0:03:27.459,0:03:32.200

S: So how did you hear about

Davidson? What brought you here?

0:03:32.200,0:03:41.590

B:Okay, so coming from Florida. I should say I played football at Davidson. So I had come in being recruited and came

0:03:41.590,0:03:47.579

up for a recruiting weekend. I had a

couple friends from high school that

0:03:47.579,0:03:52.299

were a little bit older than I that had also

come up to play at Davidson, so I knew

0:03:52.299,0:03:59.500

you know stay with it was a guy that was

my teammate and stuff like that so that's kind of my

0:03:59.500,0:04:05.799

introduction to college. My high school

football head coach's son was an assistant

0:04:05.799,0:04:11.049

coach at Davidson. So, just big connections

through the football program was kind of

0:04:11.049,0:04:16.200

how I knew about the school. The first

time I came up to Davidson was actually

0:04:16.200,0:04:22.300

1994. I was about a freshman or sophomore in high school.

0:04:22.300,0:04:28.690

But I came up because Charlotte was

hosting the Final Four, and we have had a

0:04:28.690,0:04:32.949

friend family friend that was at Davidson

at the time, so we came up to Davidson, we

0:04:32.949,0:04:37.120

looked around campus. I remember talking to

my parents and say this is great too

0:04:37.120,0:04:43.690

small. I don't think this would be a good

fit for me. Fast forward two years later,

0:04:43.690,0:04:48.040

and I applied early basically because

this is the place I want to go. So I guess that's just

0:04:48.040,0:04:55.560

the difference between I guess 14

and 17. So yah, that's kind of my introduction to Davidson.

0:04:55.560,0:04:59.919

D: Awesome, I'm sorry I skipped over

something at the beginning. Can you give

0:04:59.919,0:05:05.320

us the dates you were at Davidson? B: Sure, so I graduated high school in '97,

0:05:05.320,0:05:14.460

and I came in fall of '97 to Davidson, and I graduated in spring of 2001. D: Wonderful, thank you.

0:05:14.460,0:05:18.460

So before you so before you came to

Davidson did you know anything about the

0:05:18.460,0:05:26.620

college's religious affiliation? I did

just from what I had read in one of your guide

0:05:26.620,0:05:31.690

books about colleges or what have you. I

knew that it was loosely affiliated with

0:05:31.690,0:05:38.919

Presbyterians, but I also was told when I

came in and took an official tour one of my parents

0:05:38.919,0:05:43.479

either asked a question or I asked a question, and they

said it was loosely affiliated there is

0:05:43.479,0:05:50.530

decent [Davidson College Presbyterian Church] on campus but not [inaudible] yeah there you're gonna be kind

0:05:50.530,0:05:59.919

of immersed into it. D: Did you think that

was correct? For the most part, sure. You

0:05:59.919,0:06:05.680

know I think that when I look back at my

experience outside of the classroom at

0:06:05.680,0:06:12.849

Davidson, my day-to-day interaction was

with hallmates, teammates, and fraternity

0:06:12.849,0:06:25.960

brothers. I saw that look. So, as a

result, I will say that while I was there,

0:06:25.960,0:06:31.860

there certainly were folks that would go

to [Davidson College Presbyterian Church], but I only stepped in to it

0:06:31.860,0:06:38.270

maybe during orientation once.

And maybe two other times over a four-year

0:06:38.270,0:06:43.370

period. It just wasn't a building that

I felt like I you know I ever had

0:06:43.370,0:06:48.590

a lecture or classroom in. And just avoid the fact that other people

0:06:48.590,0:06:54.800

were you know going to

services there or had events there didn't

0:06:54.800,0:07:00.080

affect me personally. S: Okay, so was

their Jewish life? Was there an

0:07:00.080,0:07:05.450

active Jewish community on campus? what

was Jewish life like? B: I would say

0:07:05.450,0:07:12.350

generally, no. I think during my first or

second semester at one point I did

0:07:12.350,0:07:18.890

receive an email. I can't remember if it was like Tom Jenny or who

it was, but I received an email basically

0:07:18.890,0:07:23.630

saying they were trying to work with

UNC Charlotte I think now they call themselves

0:07:23.630,0:07:32.270

Charlotte University but UNC

Charlotte about trying to work with

0:07:32.270,0:07:39.800

their Hillel program and trying to

interact more with the Jewish

0:07:39.800,0:07:46.840

students. It is funny, the email. It came from Tom, and it was not

0:07:46.840,0:07:51.530

a blind copy, so we can

kind of see the rest of individuals that

0:07:51.530,0:07:59.090

were on the distribution. I think I

counted like 19 or 18 recipients. So at

0:07:59.090,0:08:05.630

the time we were probably 1,600 - 1,700

students while I was here, but at the

0:08:05.630,0:08:13.640

time, there were less than 20 that identified

themselves as Jewish. So I kind of got a chuckle

0:08:13.640,0:08:20.270

out of the small number of

recipients there.

0:08:20.270,0:08:25.220

I remember responding and saying that I'd be

interested in attending events that were

0:08:25.220,0:08:30.950

held on Davidson's campus, but I probably

would not be as interested in going

0:08:30.950,0:08:38.150

over to Charlotte for those gatherings. And I think we had like an

0:08:38.150,0:08:43.310

introductory meeting that I did attend,

and I don't think afterwards either

0:08:43.310,0:08:48.410

there was much momentum on our

side. I think five people showed up.

0:08:48.410,0:08:52.310

One person was there to ask a bunch of

questions and turns of that person was

0:08:52.310,0:09:00.020

transferring anyway. Was that person Jewish? That person was

0:09:00.020,0:09:05.980

Jewish. I'll try thinking over the

next hour the what that person's name was.

0:09:05.980,0:09:19.130

D: Thank you. B: So that was, there wasn't much

the momentum or the support behind it so it didn't transpire into anything.

0:09:19.130,0:09:25.880

D: So, how did you incorporate any

individual practice? Were there Seders on

0:09:25.880,0:09:29.630

campus? Were there places you could go

for Shabbat? How did you celebrate High

0:09:29.630,0:09:38.630

Holy Days if that was something that you

wanted to do? B:Sure, so there were--I'm trying to think off-hand--

0:09:38.630,0:09:46.250

I remember at times that there

were, I can't remember if it was the [Davidson College Presbyterian Church]

0:09:46.250,0:09:53.690

or if it was in the Carolina Inn, but i think there was a least once or twice they would

0:09:53.690,0:10:01.940

have in essence High Holy day services on

campus, and I remember at least going to

0:10:01.940,0:10:07.670

one, and it was very

makeshift. They did have a Rabbi from

0:10:07.670,0:10:17.000

Charlotte come and lead the service but probably

six, seven people total. So, there

0:10:17.000,0:10:29.000

was no [inaudible] it was

just a reading session per say.

0:10:29.000,0:10:36.470

D: So, coming from your--was your community

Jewish in Florida, would you say? B: So Tampa Bay

0:10:36.470,0:10:43.190

generally has a large Jewish

population. There were-- there's a you know

0:10:43.190,0:10:49.610

Jewish Community Center, there's a Jewish

day school otherwise--I did not attend

0:10:49.610,0:10:54.530

the day school. I went to

a small private school, but it was

0:10:54.530,0:11:02.300

not a religious affiliated school.

But generally speaking, I think

0:11:02.300,0:11:08.270

you know the larger cities in Tampa have

a pretty good Jewish demographic. D: So, did

0:11:08.270,0:11:14.839

you find Davidson a little isolating in

that sense? B: In that sense, yes, I think one

0:11:14.839,0:11:20.930

its kind of twofold one again as I

mentioned after I was Bar Mitzvah'd, I

0:11:20.930,0:11:26.029

didn't feel like I lost my Jewish

identity, but I stopped on a regular

0:11:26.029,0:11:30.790

basis practicing Judaism due to the fact

that

0:11:30.790,0:11:35.690

Friday nights we have football games, and I

was telling my folks, "I'm not you

0:11:35.690,0:11:42.560

know yeah I'm not gonna you know that's

I'm either not gonna play at all during the season or,"

0:11:42.560,0:11:47.630

So my

parents said you're you know you're 13

0:11:47.630,0:11:50.810

you're an adult this is for you to make a

decision on, and I chose to play sports.

0:11:50.810,0:11:56.860

So, we, between 14 and 17, probably went to

0:11:56.860,0:12:02.029

Temple less. My Dad would still go, but

oftentimes like my parents would go to sporting events together

0:12:02.029,0:12:09.890

as well as opposed to

separating. So that was probably going

0:12:09.890,0:12:16.670

into my last couple years before I came into

Davidson I stopped the normal practicing

0:12:16.670,0:12:22.399

as far as regularly attending the

Friday night services, and that's when I went into

0:12:22.399,0:12:27.260

your Davidson I found myself either

having games on Saturday, traveling to

0:12:27.260,0:12:35.029

away games and not being on campus. So I

would say that it was different because

0:12:35.029,0:12:41.870

all of a sudden you know I would be one

of 19 on campus, but it was not

0:12:41.870,0:12:47.630

different in the fact that I had started

to already make decisions to put other

0:12:47.630,0:12:54.860

things as more as a priority over my religious practices at the time.

0:12:54.860,0:13:03.649

S: Did you feel like while you were here, you wanted there to be a more formalized Jewish group. Because I know after you left, there was a more formal

0:13:03.649,0:13:07.370

Student Union did you feel like although

there were few you, you would have benefited

0:13:07.370,0:13:11.780

from you know more intentional group

meetings and

0:13:11.780,0:13:20.840

events and such? B: Yes, absolutely. D: So moving

more into kind of the cultural

0:13:20.840,0:13:26.390

atmosphere of the college how did you

feel or not feel like Jewish students

0:13:26.390,0:13:31.490

were included in the college's faith

community? B: Generally speaking, I think

0:13:31.490,0:13:36.800

that the college acknowledged the fact

that there if there was a small number

0:13:36.800,0:13:44.140

of Jewish students on campus, but they

also they I don't think that the request

0:13:44.140,0:13:49.760

trying to start something you Hillel

with Charlotte came from a student, I

0:13:49.760,0:13:55.420

think it was something that you know in essence Tom Chaney had

0:13:55.420,0:14:02.540

provided that as an opportunity or... The

email came to me kind of blinded where I

0:14:02.540,0:14:05.960

didn't know this was kind of in the

pipeline or something that was going to

0:14:05.960,0:14:13.430

be coming in the near future. So as a result,

I think that the college acknowledged

0:14:13.430,0:14:18.560

the fact that there are not a whole lot

of avenues, and they wanted to

0:14:18.560,0:14:26.270

provide just to help out the experience

for Jewish students, but I didn't find

0:14:26.270,0:14:32.890

myself in a situation where I felt like

because I'm Jewish

0:14:32.890,0:14:38.690

there's not opportunities for me because we're fairly close to

0:14:38.690,0:14:41.620

to Charlotte. I actually have a family friend from the Tampa Bay

0:14:41.620,0:14:47.400

Area that was Jewish that moved to Charlotte and I remember at least once or twice coming

0:14:47.400,0:14:51.280

down and going to High Holy Day services in Charlotte.

0:14:51.280,0:14:55.480

I forgot about that until we started speaking about that.

0:14:55.640,0:15:02.220

So he'd come to charlotte at least once to attend services in the Charlotte region.

0:15:04.520,0:15:09.380

D: Were you talking to other Jewish students at the time about your experience?

0:15:10.120,0:15:13.680

And what were those conversations like if you were?

0:15:15.700,0:15:19.480

B: Sure, so there was-- I would say so there's

0:15:19.480,0:15:22.940

a student that I became friendly with. He

was a fraternity brother that was also

0:15:22.940,0:15:32.240

Jewish, and I ended up you know I think

we were Phi Delts, and I think we were the

0:15:32.280,0:15:38.300

only two. I see what you're doing. Don't do the laugh.

0:15:38.300,0:15:41.340

D: Sorry, we just have one Jewish Phi Delt now.

0:15:41.340,0:15:42.660

B: Okay. Alright.

0:15:42.880,0:15:45.208

D: Anyway, yah. So we're very excited that you're Phi Delt.

0:15:45.208,0:15:47.360

S: We're so happy!

0:15:48.240,0:15:55.220

D: No, we're not laughing at you we're just

excited. He's great. We love him.

0:15:55.840,0:15:57.800

B: Our reputation precedes us.

0:15:57.800,0:15:59.860

D: Of course.

0:15:59.860,0:16:02.320

B: His name was Ian Kaplan, and he was

0:16:02.320,0:16:08.000

two years younger, so he would have been the class of '03.

0:16:10.780,0:16:15.480

He and I were basically the two Jewish students in the Fraternity.

0:16:18.620,0:16:33.140

So you talk about 50, 60, 70 guys, inevitably

there's going be, once you really get to know someone well, there's gonna be

0:16:33.140,0:16:38.620

you're gonna find out differences between people and

you make jabs from time to time.

0:16:39.660,0:16:42.900

And I remember talking to Kaplan at the time when

0:16:42.900,0:16:47.040

he was probably a freshman pledging and

I was a junior at the time.

0:16:47.040,0:16:52.860

And we're both like, you'll probably hear some things

0:16:52.860,0:17:07.080

from time to time so long as it's in a friendly gesture you know, we have tough 00:17:00skin it's something you might experience to an extent, but if it

0:17:07.340,0:17:17.220

it gets overboard, let me know. And I think that he appreciated that candor, but I never

0:17:17.240,0:17:30.460

experienced anything that was what I could point to you as antisemitism or purposefully hurtful, but there was definitely a little bit of

0:17:31.400,0:17:37.860

you know, kind of playing, kind of messing around with either

0:17:37.860,0:17:43.940

Kaplan or I just from time to time making statements.

0:17:43.940,0:17:55.000

for example we'd be going through you

know like what can happen like this week we're doing black white beach

party.

0:17:55.500,0:17:59.460

We need to figure out what we need to bring and whatever and

and some kid would be like maybe

0:17:59.460,0:18:04.120

see if Kaplan or Boker have any coupons for this. Stuff like that.

0:18:04.120,0:18:08.300

And because it came from like you

know friends and teammates

0:18:08.300,0:18:13.080

you kinda laugh it off but something that they weren't

saying that because we were thrifty,

0:18:13.360,0:18:15.120

they were saying that obviously because we were Jewish.

0:18:15.840,0:18:21.340

And again, I don't think that that sort of thing was meant to be hurtful as opposed to it was meant to be

0:18:21.820,0:18:26.680

you know, funny to the rest of the group.

0:18:26.820,0:18:29.320

D: So to that effect, how did you feel like your non-Jewish peers

0:18:29.320,0:18:32.200

understood didn't understand Judaism?

0:18:34.620,0:18:37.080

B: I would say that there's probably--they

0:18:37.080,0:18:40.560

probably didn't understand. I mean they

understand the differences that you

0:18:40.560,0:18:48.100

can read about and textbooks or

humanities or but generally speaking it

0:18:48.280,0:18:55.260

was I don't think people understood what

the religious what the religion

0:18:55.260,0:18:58.620

represented what it is other than "oh,

yeah you guys just like the Old

0:18:58.620,0:19:01.500

Testament you guys don't read the New Testament. That was kind of

0:19:01.500,0:19:09.060

the extent of the understanding that I think most folks have on Judaism.

0:19:09.060,0:19:15.240

S: So, with that did you feel like you kind of needed to kind of dilute your Jewish

identity um at all or were you

0:19:15.240,0:19:20.000

comfortable with that identity kind of

being like just the way the forms that

0:19:20.200,0:19:22.300

it took then?

0:19:22.300,0:19:35.960

B: I was comfortable with it. I think that... If you talk about that fact that there were 19 folks who identified themselves, and then when there's a meeting, you know, six

0:19:35.960,0:19:40.660

showed up there probably is a little bit

of delusion. I'd imagine if you just

0:19:40.660,0:19:48.400

about their general population there

probably was maybe 40, 50 that would at

0:19:48.400,0:19:54.070

least be either you know had either

one parent that was Jewish or

0:19:54.070,0:20:01.410

just did not identify themselves, and you

typically wouldn't see a whole lot of

0:20:01.410,0:20:08.200

winter things like High Holy Days. Things

that were either announcing it or

0:20:08.200,0:20:12.790

promoting it or what-have-you. It's kinda just it's

kind of silent

0:20:12.790,0:20:19.600

in the respect of that. If you looked at, you

know, I think you could probably walk

0:20:19.600,0:20:24.100

around campus you know before you know

winter break and you see something that

0:20:24.100,0:20:30.610

relates to you know what you're doing you know

for Christmas, and this project of what

0:20:30.610,0:20:36.270

have you, and I think the best is just

because you're you're trying to target

0:20:36.270,0:20:41.620

16 or 17 hundred people at a time, more people are going to identify with

0:20:41.620,0:20:47.650

something like that nature then. So.

S: I'm also curious about the chaplains

0:20:47.650,0:20:52.690

office at the time. So Rob Spock was here,

who's still currently here's as the

0:20:52.690,0:20:56.320

Chaplain. Did you feel like the

Chaplain's Office was was established

0:20:56.320,0:21:00.310

then? Did it feel like a resource to

you, or were there any other people on

0:21:00.500,0:21:06.060

campus you could talk to you about

Judaism who weren't your on your team or weren't your peers?

0:21:08.960,0:21:18.420

B: I don't think that the Chaplain's office group was that active with respect to reaching out to the extent that I took

0:21:18.700,0:21:24.610

advantage and tried to utilize it as a

resource. It probably would have been

0:21:24.610,0:21:29.260

good services available. I think if I ever had any incidents that have occurred that would

0:21:29.260,0:21:32.770

be an avenue,

but generally speaking, it was not

0:21:32.770,0:21:40.120

something that was really promoted all

that well or provided opportunities that

0:21:40.120,0:21:45.910

were well know. S: Did you know of

any Jewish professors at the time? B: I'm

0:21:45.910,0:21:53.870

trying to think.

I feel like, yes, I can't pinpoint. There wouldn't

0:21:53.870,0:21:57.920

have been a professor that I had

deep relationship because they were

0:21:57.920,0:22:06.200

Jewish I think... um, I want to say, and I may be wrong on this completely but I 00:22:00think Dr.

0:22:06.200,0:22:16.010

Robertson, Clinical Science, I feel like

she may have been Jewish, but she could

0:22:16.010,0:22:23.920

but she's not that again I was friendly with her, but it had nothing to do with the fact that we were both Jewish.

0:22:26.080,0:22:30.860

D: Would you say there were any major

changes in Jewish life at Davidson

0:22:30.860,0:22:35.179

during your time there?

I know that Hill-- we talked

0:22:35.179,0:22:36.240

about the Jewish Students Union being

founded in 2002 I believe?

0:22:40.190,0:22:46.309

So that was right after your time but was there

anything that was more or less difficult

0:22:46.309,0:22:57.770

while you're at Davidson? B: I guess the

first part of the question is does did I see any

0:22:57.770,0:23:04.250

changes. I think the changes really are

the fact that's there was at least an

0:23:04.250,0:23:08.600

outreach or trying to establish

something. I don't think there was

0:23:08.600,0:23:16.550

momentum while I was there. I didn't realize

it was 2002 when they established Hillel. I thought it was '03 or

0:23:16.550,0:23:20.690

'04. S: I think it may have been a bit

later. We have to check on that. It maybe

0:23:20.690,0:23:28.510

2005 now that I'm thinking about it more.

But again I guess it was after your time.

0:23:28.840,0:23:42.350

B: Yes it was. I felt like if it was 2002 there were definitely some discussions or momentum behind it in '01. But whenever it

was, I did not see a lot of

0:23:42.350,0:23:49.520

changes between '97 and 2001 through new opportunities other than

just what they were just

0:23:49.520,0:24:01.220

trying to you know email and see if there's momentum behind. As far as difficulties, I

0:24:01.220,0:24:06.470

don't think there were specific

difficulties that I had because I was

0:24:06.470,0:24:11.960

Jewish.

Every opportunity with respect to availability

0:24:11.960,0:24:18.020

of teachers, services, there was no

distinction between you know whether

0:24:18.020,0:24:23.180

someone was Jewish or not what was

available to them. If I so desired, I think

0:24:23.180,0:24:32.690

I could have gone to church and found some sort of you know--

0:24:32.690,0:24:40.070

but again it was just not something that

I had any interest in on you to explore

0:24:40.070,0:24:44.660

other religions or what-have-you and

honestly I think it was kind of a little

0:24:44.660,0:24:50.150

bit of an afterthought. D: Yeah, I was kind

of talking about something is smaller I

0:24:50.150,0:24:54.920

guess it could be large depending on

your practice: taking the day off for Yom

0:24:54.920,0:24:59.390

Kippur if you're fasting or professors

understanding if you needed to submit an

0:24:59.390,0:25:08.090

assignment late or something like that.

B: I honestly don't recall. I do remember

0:25:08.090,0:25:20.440

fasting, and I remember thinking to myself...I

remember like at some point being like I

0:25:20.440,0:25:27.770

cannot wait until 12:01 because I'm going to

go to the outpost or whatever because I'm starving

0:25:27.770,0:25:33.560

I remember kinda thinking that this is kind of funny.

0:25:33.560,0:25:38.480

I'm used to breaking fast at someone's

house, and now I'm at Commons. You know, so..

0:25:38.480,0:25:48.710

that was just personal that

was not something that was done with

0:25:48.710,0:25:51.470

their booth or what have you. Everything was not

like a "we're going to break the fast"

0:25:51.470,0:26:01.990

you know dinner. D: Did you ever try taking anyone..Oh sorry no go ahead I was gonna move into another question.

0:26:04.090,0:26:15.980

B: I don't recall ever having an issue with respect to not attending classes or what-have-you. I think the way I got through

0:26:15.980,0:26:20.150

Davidson, I remember, I think I

missed three classes over the course of

0:26:20.150,0:26:26.190

four years.

S&D: Oh congratulations! B: Yeah and that other

0:26:26.190,0:26:31.620

than obviously traveling for for

sporting events that was, but I thought

0:26:31.620,0:26:36.630

to myself like I'm gonna I'm either

gonna learn this material you know with

0:26:36.630,0:26:41.460

the professors be you know anything

they're going to be addressed on the

0:26:41.460,0:26:49.679

good sort of you know test or exam

going to be discussed in class, and if

0:26:49.679,0:26:53.190

I'm going to try to say hey I'm not gonna go to my class. The professor doesn't take

0:26:53.190,0:26:58.409

role, and I'm just going to do the reading on my own, I thought that was a large a much

0:26:58.409,0:27:03.799

larger scope of information, and

typically I think that fit really well for me.

0:27:03.799,0:27:09.299

Attending class was was just

important as actually studying outside

0:27:09.299,0:27:17.730

of class. So I really made it a point not to miss class as much as possible.

0:27:17.730,0:27:23.100

And that was my biggest advantage to learning a lot of information.

D: We've talked about Judaism as a

0:27:23.100,0:27:26.820

religious identity, but even thinking

about it is like a cultural identity or

0:27:26.820,0:27:33.980

something that is maybe more pervasive

than simply just like what you believe,

0:27:33.980,0:27:38.730

how did your identity change as a result

of being at Davidson? Do you feel like

0:27:38.730,0:27:42.419

you felt more Jewish after leaving? Or

more Jewish while you were here? Or even

0:27:42.419,0:27:51.330

less Jewish? B: So from a practicing standpoint,

as far as, I'll divide us up between the

0:27:51.330,0:27:58.710

practicing and cultural. From a practicing

standpoint I found that I had certainly

0:27:58.710,0:28:06.960

attended temple much less often from

where from between the ages of

0:28:06.960,0:28:13.440

14 and 22. Some of that is

because that was a decision that I made

0:28:13.440,0:28:20.700

between 14 and 17.

Some of it was because I don't get the opportunities

0:28:20.700,0:28:25.320

were you know it would have taken much

more of an effort it was not being hopping

0:28:25.320,0:28:30.690

in the car with mom and dad and riding

a mile to Temple. D: Right. B: It was finding a

0:28:30.690,0:28:38.130

way to get to Charlotte. S: Yea. B: This was pre-Uber, and yeah you know I did

0:28:38.130,0:28:44.100

have a car I guess three or four years that I was on campus. S: Okay so they didn't provide

0:28:44.100,0:29:08.640

transportation at all? B: I don't think so. I don't recall to be honest with you. If they did, it wasn't something that was relayed very well.

okay I realize now that I was mixing up

0:29:08.640,0:29:12.030

D: I realize now that I was mixing up the the date of the foundation of Hillel with the date of the foundation of

0:29:12.030,0:29:17.220

the temple in Lake Norman, Temple

Kol Tikvah. But yes, Hillel was founded

0:29:17.220,0:29:23.280

later but Kol Tikvah was maybe founded in

2002 or 2003, so yeah so that's so that's

0:29:23.280,0:29:28.560

what I was thinking of but.. S: no, yeah I

think I think that was early

0:29:28.560,0:29:31.050

2000's after you had come, and

then the Jewish Student Union was

0:29:31.050,0:29:38.010

founded in '05, and then Hillel was

founded like in 2012. Yeah. B: I imagine that

0:29:38.010,0:29:45.960

having a temple much closer to campus probably makes a pretty big

0:29:45.960,0:29:51.630

difference with respect to... I would not

be surprised if today there are you

0:29:51.630,0:29:55.110

know a shuttle for High Holy Days that will take students. Or there are...

0:29:55.110,0:30:01.860

It's it's obviously a much

easier task. I mean it's to go--I don't

0:30:01.860,0:30:05.730

know how well you guys know Charlotte,

but the there's there's three temples

0:30:05.730,0:30:12.210

that I'll sit next to each other in

South Charlotte that are probably in 45

0:30:12.210,0:30:17.190

to 50 minutes from Davidson. I know

that because I currently live about

0:30:17.190,0:30:24.470

three miles from from that area that's the

Jewish Community Center area, and

0:30:24.470,0:30:29.400

when I come up to Davidson for a

basketball game or a football game or if I've

0:30:29.400,0:30:33.180

been on campus, it usually takes

45 to 50 minutes. So generally speaking,

0:30:33.180,0:30:39.270

trying to good you know there are

I'm sure you're you and yeah you know

0:30:39.270,0:30:43.200

in UNC Charlotte and there's probably other temples,

but I think generally the largest kind

0:30:43.200,0:30:47.010

of congregation of three temples that sit next to each

other

0:30:47.010,0:30:53.220

would be kind of that area, and that's

you're talking about that's about two

0:30:53.220,0:31:00.150

hours of going down and

coming back and then attending. It was it

0:31:00.150,0:31:06.690

was not an easy proposition to do on a regular basis. S: yeah

0:31:06.690,0:31:11.480

what temple was it that everyone went to

in Charlotte? B: I think it's temple Bethel and one other temple.

0:31:15.510,0:31:22.470

D: Do you remember if there B: But it's right off Providence

Road S: Okay B: In Charlotte so it's

0:31:22.470,0:31:26.940

basically right near providence and

Fairview is the intersection, and there's

0:31:26.940,0:31:37.049

a Jewish Community Center, and there's I think a reformed and a conservative temple.

D: Do you remember if there were any students

0:31:37.049,0:31:41.130

who kind of cultivated relationships

with the temple? And that must have been

0:31:41.130,0:31:48.080

individually as opposed to actually

formally? B: You know it's interesting.

0:31:48.080,0:31:55.890

Okay, so let me ask you a question. If I make a story about someone on campus

0:31:55.890,0:32:01.169

this is probably for the archives. But I don't want to be telling someone

0:32:01.169,0:32:06.540

else's story per say. So, one thing, I don't want to

0:32:06.540,0:32:10.500

answer that question directly, but I will

say one thing that you guys may want to

0:32:10.500,0:32:21.530

look into is someone that was Class of

2002 his name is Bobby Pittenger, and

0:32:22.040,0:32:30.960

Bobby's probably was a Bobby's name, the

Pittenger family, is a very well

0:32:30.960,0:32:38.160

established family in Charlotte. His dad

was a U.S. senator until last term--excuse

0:32:38.160,0:32:44.910

me a US Representativ-- until the

last term. He owns huge amounts of real

0:32:44.910,0:32:53.780

estate throughout the Carolinas and

Virginia. Very well-to-do family. Bobby,

0:32:53.780,0:32:59.370

right after he graduated from Davidson,

started, even though he was born and

0:32:59.370,0:33:03.390

raised Christian,

started going to temple because he just

0:33:03.390,0:33:11.340

found it interesting, and he is currently

in the process of formally converting

0:33:11.340,0:33:18.780

to Judaism. D: Oh wow. Thank you for pointing us

towards him. B: I don't want to.. I can't speak on

0:33:18.780,0:33:26.250

behalf of what made him go from Davidson

being raised Christian in a very old self

0:33:26.250,0:33:32.550

established family to coming out

at Davidson and finding his own interest

0:33:32.550,0:33:36.930

in Judaism S&D: mm-hmm.

B: I will tell you that I was shocked the first

0:33:36.930,0:33:43.860

time that he told me this, and the last

couple years he's been inviting me to

0:33:43.860,0:33:52.380

break fast. Either at his house or

if he's invited to someone else's house

0:33:52.380,0:33:57.570

he oftentimes says I've only fasted with

this individual last couple years, can I invite him

0:33:57.570,0:34:03.420

as well. They say, "absolutely the more the merrier."

And I've broken fast with him the last

0:34:03.420,0:34:09.300

couple years. If you can

find him, I think that that would be an

0:34:09.300,0:34:15.420

interesting conversation you guys could have with him, but I don't

want to speak on behalf of his

0:34:15.420,0:34:22.920

experience. Once [inaudible].

0:34:22.920,0:34:41.250

D: Thank you! That's an incredible tip.

Thank you so much. So moving into post Davidson...

0:34:41.250,0:34:47.010

S: So I guess we kind of touched on this but, um what

did what like I guess you already

0:34:47.010,0:34:50.880

responded to this, but like how your faith

evolved or changed after your time at

0:34:50.880,0:34:56.130

Davidson, and whether or not that was

informed by not practicing as much here,

0:34:56.130,0:35:00.900

and I know you said up until you're 21

it was your were less practicing, but like

0:35:00.900,0:35:06.570

currently like would you attribute to

like changes in the practicing

0:35:06.570,0:35:11.670

of your faith like to people you had met

after Davidson or kind of individual

0:35:11.670,0:35:13.940

changes? Did you stay in Charlotte

0:35:13.940,0:35:22.099

after Davidson? Did a location impact your practices after. B: sure so yeah

0:35:22.099,0:35:26.990

my time frame, so I

graduated in 2001. For the next two years

0:35:26.990,0:35:36.789

I lived in Charlotte, and I lived with

with two guys upper teammates. They were

0:35:36.789,0:35:43.640

two African-Americans who actually at

the time started playing the CFL, the

0:35:43.640,0:35:50.119

Canadian football League, and they were

both Christian, but like not practicing,

0:35:50.119,0:35:58.130

and I think at the time just from

our standpoint our weekends and

0:35:58.130,0:36:02.240

everything we did outside of what we're

doing with our lives, I would go to work

0:36:02.240,0:36:06.829

and come home, and they would be working out and trying to you

0:36:06.829,0:36:11.720

know you know live the dream of playing

professional football. And during that

0:36:11.720,0:36:18.520

time period both for them and for me,

like religion was definitely secondary. I

0:36:18.520,0:36:25.010

could say during that time period, other

than when I was home in Florida, I took my

0:36:25.010,0:36:29.690

parents if it happened to coincide, but I

probably didn't go to Temple during that

0:36:29.690,0:36:33.730

time period I was in Charlotte, and I would

say I don't think they went to church

0:36:33.730,0:36:40.369

during that two-year period.

After two years,

0:36:40.369,0:36:46.279

I went to University of Florida for law school,

which is three years. And during that

0:36:46.279,0:36:52.430

time period, I lived about a mile

from the Hillel house at

0:36:52.430,0:37:03.470

UF, and that is how I got involved

from a [phone] number and attending every

0:37:03.470,0:37:10.849

Friday night they would have in essence a gathering. You

know a rabbi would come in and give a speech they

0:37:10.849,0:37:19.930

do to do at the end of a short small

service they would kinda do you know

0:37:19.930,0:37:25.339

pass out the blessing of the candles the blessing of the wine, blessing of the bread, and there was a little bit

0:37:25.339,0:37:30.560

like a happy hour. And

from time to time I would stay I would go

0:37:30.560,0:37:35.619

do that,

and I think there was a lot more, I mean

0:37:35.619,0:37:41.270

you talk about University of Florida,

not including

0:37:41.270,0:37:50.089

online students, we're talking about 55,000 students, just by

the sheer nature I think there's about four or

0:37:50.089,0:37:56.240

five thousand members there. D: Wow. That's wild. That's incredible. S: Quite the shift.

0:37:56.240,0:38:03.920

D: Yeah. B: Yeah. So, it was not only was I lived

close to the house, but it was also a very

0:38:03.920,0:38:11.810

cool facility. They did tailgates before

football games. They did, even though it

0:38:11.810,0:38:20.540

had nothing to do with Judaism, they

would have like a Fat Tuesday Mardi Gras party.

0:38:20.540,0:38:24.290

They would have tea parties.

These would transpire throughout the year and stuff like that.

0:38:24.290,0:38:30.050

Additionally, both of my

parents went to University of Florida.

0:38:30.050,0:38:35.950

My dad was a Sig Kap, which was a Jewish fraternity. And as

0:38:35.950,0:38:40.790

a legacy they'd be like "Hey! Come to dinner whenever you want."

I rarely took

0:38:40.790,0:38:44.810

them up on that, but I

found that that was much more

0:38:44.810,0:38:49.430

"oh you're Jewish, we have all these

opportunities. Let me get you involved."

0:38:49.430,0:38:55.220

That was the difference.

I mean you look back at it, like I

0:38:55.220,0:38:59.420

obviously went to a college that was

affiliated with the Presbyterian

0:38:59.420,0:39:05.000

Church, so that was nothing I ever expected and didn't receive it.

0:39:05.000,0:39:10.730

But then you go to the University of Florida, which is completely student

0:39:10.730,0:39:16.030

organization run: as far as 90% of

activities outside the classroom.

0:39:16.030,0:39:20.750

Inevitably, if you have a sampling of

four or five thousand students as

0:39:20.750,0:39:24.830

opposed to nineteen, there's going to be a

plethora of activities and opportunities

0:39:24.830,0:39:30.890

that just weren't available you know

at a school like Davison just due

0:39:30.890,0:39:40.300

to circumstances. D: Yah, certainly.

B: So I would said during that time period, I

0:39:40.300,0:39:46.160

definitely

found myself being much more proactive and

0:39:46.160,0:39:54.490

going and attending events that kinda

cater to Jewish students.

0:39:54.490,0:40:02.299

So that kind of puts Davidson... Once I

graduate from law school, and I moved

0:40:02.299,0:40:08.920

back to Charlotte around 2006, I was dating a

girl that I went to law school with, and

0:40:08.920,0:40:18.500

she was born Catholic, and very

early on from our dating she said,

0:40:18.500,0:40:24.650

"I like you we're getting serious. Before this gets any

0:40:24.650,0:40:29.089

further I think there's one thing that

basically I want you to understand is

0:40:29.089,0:40:36.770

I know your mom did, but I have no

plans to convert to Judaism, and I said that's

0:40:36.770,0:40:45.890

fine, and we continue to date and um to the extent she kind of said as a fair

0:40:45.890,0:40:50.720

warning my parents think that's a problem like

we could date, but it's never gonna go

0:40:50.720,0:40:55.990

anywhere.

Fast forward to today, and that's my wife.

0:40:55.990,0:41:03.770

She is still practicing Catholicism, and sh

fairly regularly goes to church, and I

0:41:03.770,0:41:11.059

still practice Judaism, less than

she does, but still on a semi-regular

0:41:11.059,0:41:22.490

basis. D: Awesome. I uh. I uh wonder. Did you hear about what happened last semester on

0:41:22.490,0:41:37.369

Davidson's campus? B: Um. Is this the...? D: This would be the neo-nazis. S: As we like to call them. D: The Twitter nazis, yah. S: So what was it like to

0:41:37.369,0:41:40.640

learn about that? How did you learn about

that? Did you feel like the school did a

0:41:40.640,0:41:46.520

good job of communicating that with you?

B: These were the students that..? yah. The school did

0:41:46.520,0:41:55.160

an excellent job of all communicating that to all the alumni not just the Jewish alumni.

0:41:55.160,0:42:00.710

S: Yeah, what was it like to learn about it?

Disappointed, obviously, I think that you

0:42:00.710,0:42:08.150

can look at things, you know, with very

as they are and you can look at things

0:42:08.150,0:42:13.930

with this particular situation, and say that

response was swift and appropriate and

0:42:13.930,0:42:19.700

well thought out, and you can applaud the

college for that. But simultaneously,

0:42:19.700,0:42:26.150

you can also look at the circumstances.

My personal belief is especially that

0:42:26.150,0:42:31.400

I've worked in Wales and I worked with a lot of folks in Europe, and as a result

0:42:31.400,0:42:34.340

you kind of follow and let them joke a little bit more than

0:42:34.340,0:42:38.480

would otherwise

S&D: Yeah. B: And I think that it's very

0:42:38.480,0:42:43.580

obviously that's Antisemitism is on the

rise in Europe, and that is starting to

0:42:43.580,0:42:52.810

flow its way over to the United States. I

think that... It's interesting I have I

0:42:52.810,0:42:58.880

have a lot of friends that are on all sides

of the spectrum, I think everyone

0:42:58.880,0:43:04.490

can agree that Trump's an idiot, but other than that, I have focused on hard core

0:43:04.490,0:43:10.160

Republicans and hard-core Democrats, and all of them in

between. I think that my friends that are

0:43:10.160,0:43:15.530

very liberal you know say there honestly should be

no law where we couldn't invite these

0:43:15.530,0:43:20.120

people in, but you know to give them a

better opportunity for life. Folks that

0:43:20.120,0:43:29.870

support, you know, the AOC, a representative from

New York, even they, when they are

0:43:29.870,0:43:41.360

promoting I guess or discussing their

viewpoints, which can be very left, they

0:43:41.360,0:43:48.530

are still and more like Pro, you know,

freedom for Palestine. Stop Israel

0:43:48.530,0:43:54.650

occupation, and but that's where it's

it's kind of backwards in that since.

0:43:54.650,0:43:59.620

Because I feel that someone that would

be you know more on the liberal side

0:43:59.620,0:44:06.380

would typically be you know Pro

African-American right, pro-women's rights.

0:44:06.380,0:44:10.390

I mean just across the board, which

everyone can agree

0:44:10.390,0:44:14.240

generally you know a republican can agree

agree upon those items. But I will say

0:44:14.240,0:44:22.970

that people that are much more liberal

in nature, they have a kind of a stance that is

0:44:22.970,0:44:30.170

more like anti-Israeli. I feel like at

that point they're being kinda of somewhat

0:44:30.170,0:44:34.130

of level you know whether you know about

that one [no idea]. So I think that's that's

0:44:34.130,0:44:40.490

something that when you see the

rise of anti-semitism in the UK, and that

0:44:40.490,0:44:47.090

kind of increasing over to the US, it's

definitely something that is a problem.

0:44:47.090,0:44:52.580

It's not just something that

you read about, and think oh that

0:44:52.580,0:45:00.340

that's very difficult or disturbing for

that community. When it hits Davidson. It hits all.

0:45:04.119,0:45:10.970

D: Do you know anything about the push

for Jewish Studies at Davidson? B: I'm sorry. One more time? S: Jewish

0:45:10.970,0:45:15.770

Studies. D: There's some campus activism

right now as far as kind of illuminating

0:45:15.770,0:45:19.910

Jewish issues, and some of them, I mean,

Israel is a Jewish issue from any side I

0:45:19.910,0:45:23.510

know that some of our more liberal

peers are definitely less pro-israel

0:45:23.510,0:45:27.290

some of our more evangelical peel peers, which has been a new experience for me, are

0:45:27.290,0:45:32.359

more pro- Israel, but like I was saying

there's some Jewish students

0:45:32.359,0:45:35.720

getting together and saying in light of

what happened last semester and also in

0:45:35.720,0:45:40.119

response to kind of like a greater kind

of campus cultural illiteracy with Judaism

0:45:40.119,0:45:43.850

with regard to Judaism, People who think

that Jews are just people who read the

0:45:43.850,0:45:47.810

Old Testament, maybe we should be a

little more proactive about educating

0:45:47.810,0:45:50.990

people, and it shouldn't necessarily fall

to Jewish students to do that, but rather

0:45:50.990,0:45:55.670

have someone who can, with a PhD, come in and say well this is what Judaism has

0:45:55.670,0:46:02.660

been is historically, is now, whatever you

want to say. I don't know if you know anything about that? S: We sent out a

0:46:02.660,0:46:08.380

petition, which we can send to you.

0:46:15.609,0:46:22.580

B: Yah that would be great. I have not heard about that, or if I have who knows. You'll both see it when you graduate, Davidson might be caved in (?) alumni

yeah

0:46:22.580,0:46:32.720

for a multitude of reasons both of it has to

remember what a great time you and D: And of course wouldn't you like to give some money? B: But with that being said

0:46:32.720,0:46:43.640

I think that would be a great addition. I would love to see more platforms for understanding.

0:46:43.640,0:46:46.160

D: Wonderful. We have a couple of questions that we want to

get back to you, and then we'll wrap up

0:46:46.160,0:46:51.320

formally. We know you have to go in a

couple of minutes. Yeah so one thing I

0:46:51.320,0:46:56.090

will that kind of came to me as we were

talking about when you your time at UF:

0:46:56.090,0:46:59.870

Did your parents ever ask you about

Jewish life at Davidson, and how are you

0:46:59.870,0:47:02.660

talking about

the experience you have the people who

0:47:02.660,0:47:12.260

are outside of the college community? B: So yes certainly I think that they would

0:47:12.260,0:47:16.220

certainly say you know, "hey are you going

too fast? Are you doing more services?" and

0:47:16.220,0:47:18.710

the answer was like sometimes yes sometimes no.

0:47:18.710,0:47:22.910

I mean we would certainly talk about it,

but it wasn't something that there was

0:47:22.910,0:47:27.710

any sort of criticism or showing

disappointment or otherwise. And you know

0:47:27.710,0:47:36.050

what, I'll tell this other really quick story.

When I was probably two years out, there

0:47:36.050,0:47:44.750

was a family that was look--my

dad knew the family--and she was--there

0:47:44.750,0:47:51.050

was a family I was looking at Davidson,

and I think I think her name is Brooke Wilkey (?), she was a

0:47:51.050,0:47:58.820

couple years or a year or two younger. And her dad emailed my dad about you

0:47:58.820,0:48:04.010

know one thing I'm concerned

about Davidson is the lack of basically Jewish

0:48:04.010,0:48:10.160

opportunities or or avenues and sending

my you know my child to a Presbyterian

0:48:10.160,0:48:15.920

school won't be in Jewish I feel is

disservice. I'd like, you know, as someone

0:48:15.920,0:48:22.100

that is Jewish that had their son go

through the college there could

0:48:22.100,0:48:26.450

get your input to make an informed

decision on like you know what

0:48:26.450,0:48:30.500

input could you provide to our daughter

before she goes off to college

0:48:30.500,0:48:39.650

next year. And um my dad shot

me an email and said basically you . know I've

0:48:39.650,0:48:45.470

had this conversation and there's you know

concern from the father, and I'd

0:48:45.470,0:48:49.400

like to get back to him

with the response, but I think I should talk to

0:48:49.400,0:48:53.600

you first,

and he said I think that it'd be nice if

0:48:53.600,0:48:56.660

we could, you know, if you could maybe

before we talk, you can, kind of figure

0:48:56.660,0:49:04.160

out what avenues may be available today

in 2002-2003, you know, but I can find

0:49:04.160,0:49:09.050

more support saying that these are

avenues that you knowJews can basically

0:49:09.050,0:49:14.150

utilize at Davidson. Even though

0:49:14.150,0:49:20.650

Davidson diluted your your Judaism, I

think that that's something that is not

0:49:20.650,0:49:27.470

you know there are avenues that could

prevent that, and I remember being like

0:49:27.470,0:49:32.990

furious that much you know, and I wrote

back a scathing email that was followed

0:49:32.990,0:49:40.280

up three or four pages oh you know the

difference between practicing and the

0:49:40.280,0:49:46.330

culture, and we just kind of lost touch

on there and basically just

0:49:46.330,0:49:51.280

trying to put him in his place a little

bit, and my dad's an attorney that's

0:49:51.280,0:49:56.510

he's been confrontational quite as well and he just wrote back and said

0:49:56.510,0:50:00.830

you know I stand corrected

let's talk tonight or something. You know

0:50:00.830,0:50:04.310

like I think he realized that he is

statements went too far, but it did show

0:50:04.310,0:50:13.690

me what his viewpoint was at that time

at the fact that I had kind of again

0:50:13.690,0:50:19.100

2002-2003, before law school, I would say I probably went to church, um excuse me, I went to

0:50:19.100,0:50:22.880

Temple two or three times during that

two-year period.

0:50:22.880,0:50:27.080

D: yeah. B: And that was usually when I was on my own in Charlotte.

0:50:27.080,0:50:32.420

S: Gotcha. This is slightly more random, but also

0:50:32.420,0:50:36.980

related to... actually next week, we're

bringing in dr. Ron Linden

0:50:36.980,0:50:41.440

who, I don't know if you're familiar with

the Linden affair which happened in '77,

0:50:41.440,0:50:45.880

he was a professor of political science

who was hired at Davidson, and

0:50:45.880,0:50:50.800

D: Rather offered a job. S: Sorry,

was not hired. He, at the time, the college

0:50:50.800,0:50:56.410

was operating on a policy called

Christian tenure, and he was a Jewish

0:50:56.410,0:51:02.200

professor and basically it stipulated

that while he was here he would

0:51:02.200,0:51:07.750

consciously uphold the Christian

tradition. D: Essentially, Dr. Linden was

0:51:07.750,0:51:11.320

denied a job because he was Jewish. We were just wondering if you had a sense

0:51:11.320,0:51:15.400

of the fact that that was true. S: Or that had

happened or if you had heard about it on

0:51:15.400,0:51:18.340

campus, or just mention of it while you

were here.

0:51:18.340,0:51:26.370

B: No, I had not. You know what that reminds me of there was a proposal

0:51:26.370,0:51:33.520

shortly after I graduated to change the

bylaws or that's what have been about

0:51:33.520,0:51:37.510

2002 or 2003. You guys may know more about

0:51:37.510,0:51:42.000

this than I can recall offhand. It have

changed the bylaws of the college,

0:51:42.000,0:51:47.350

whether they want to expressly state

that it was upholding Christian values

0:51:47.350,0:51:55.600

or something of that nature

right, and that was I that was the first

0:51:55.600,0:52:03.550

time in the quote and quote the real world where I kind of

like you know what it's you know I'm

0:52:03.550,0:52:07.600

outside my bubble you know I went to a

private high school, I was in a bottle,

0:52:07.600,0:52:12.850

I went to Davidson, and I was in a bubble, I came out to

real world, and not only did I feel like

0:52:12.850,0:52:18.040

was I outside the bubble because all of

sudden real world issues faced me in a

0:52:18.040,0:52:25.570

way that didn't when I was protected in

private school study, but not only is that

0:52:25.570,0:52:31.690

the case but my bubble pops from, in

essence, from Davidson officials, my

0:52:31.690,0:52:36.160

previous bubble, which I just felt like

that was just such a strange feeling

0:52:36.160,0:52:40.450

to all of a sudden you know what, put your

big-boy pants on, you're an adult now,

0:52:40.450,0:52:46.450

the coddling is over because

this is something that not only am I

0:52:46.450,0:52:52.630

facing but I'm faced directly from you

know well I used to consider my bubble

0:52:52.630,0:52:55.260

there. D: yeah

0:52:56.690,0:53:00.289

and we'll just ask a little more

explicitly for the sake of the archives:

0:53:00.289,0:53:04.789

did you experience anti-semitism, did you

hear of anti-semitism, we've heard

0:53:04.789,0:53:08.240

stories of people pledging different

frats and having swastikas basically

0:53:08.240,0:53:11.539

waking up and seeing swastikas on their

door, I don't know if it you experience

0:53:11.539,0:53:21.799

anything that explicit, but besides the

couponing... B: I think that if I was overly

0:53:21.799,0:53:25.160

sensitive, the statements that were made I would

0:53:25.160,0:53:31.880

probably label as such, but I think that

when when you are close to someone or

0:53:31.880,0:53:37.730

teammates or what have you

like I used to kid with one of them one of

0:53:37.730,0:53:41.089

the guys that actually ended up

living with for two years, was probably my best

0:53:41.089,0:53:44.539

friend at Davidson was African American. And I used to tell him, as much as we're hanging out

0:53:44.539,0:53:48.319

like I'm living

on CPT, which he called Color People Time, with you.

0:53:48.319,0:53:54.829

You know, and that was

something that you know because we would

0:53:54.829,0:53:58.099

kind of joke about amongst each other of

where I would say like if I didn't know

0:53:58.099,0:54:03.140

him well enough people pointed out that

I'm racist. But he's my best friend. you know like

0:54:03.140,0:54:07.250

it was there's a little bit of you know

I certainly heard statements from time to time

0:54:07.250,0:54:13.670

time, but it was I never said to myself this was antisemitism.

D: Yah. Of course. We just wanted to

0:54:13.670,0:54:17.180

ask. Finally, so as we're wrapping up um

0:54:17.180,0:54:20.119

is there anything else you'd like us to

record today just kind of like

0:54:20.119,0:54:23.240

extraneous that we didn't touch on, but

you feel like could be worthwhile for

0:54:23.240,0:54:31.549

posterity. S: Or thought we didn't ask and should have.

B: Probably just reiterate that what

0:54:31.549,0:54:35.839

the initiative but you mentioned, I think

that's tremendous I think it's important.

0:54:35.839,0:54:41.349

Again, I think that there is a growing

problem in the United States of

0:54:41.349,0:54:50.930

tolerance for anti-semitism where not

only is it it is is there more prevalent

0:54:50.930,0:54:56.660

events of anti-semitism I think than it was 20 years

ago, but I think that it doesn't shock

0:54:56.660,0:55:02.930

the you know the senses to the same extent that it probably would for them.

0:55:02.930,0:55:11.260

I think that some you know education is good. I think that there can be avenues where you know..

0:55:11.260,0:55:18.440

but anytime you try to install these

items, you're also going to have some folks

0:55:18.440,0:55:23.210

that will probably say that

this stuff is unnecessary why would we waste our time on that?

0:55:23.210,0:55:28.040

and I think that that's that's going to

be very interesting to see how this

0:55:28.040,0:55:32.990

plays out, but I think that the initiative is great!

D: Yeah! we've seen some positive movement

0:55:32.990,0:55:37.220

as far as the college committing to

hiring a visiting professor and trying

0:55:37.220,0:55:40.340

to raise money in the mean time for an

endowed chair, but we're still in the

0:55:40.340,0:55:44.060

very early stages, but at the very least

the posting is up and there should be

0:55:44.060,0:55:49.160

someone next semester, which is really

awesome. S: And also if you if you think of

0:55:49.160,0:55:52.250

other people, if other people come to mind. I don't know if

you mentioned Bobby

0:55:52.250,0:55:56.390

Pittenger who will try to reach out to

since that stories is really fascinating

0:55:56.390,0:56:01.520

if you if you do think of people um, send

them send their names our way because we

0:56:01.520,0:56:06.760

do want to get as many kind of oral

history testimonies as we possibly can,

0:56:06.760,0:56:13.820

but thank you so much. D: We really appreciate it. S: It's

great meeting you. D: Absolutely.

0:56:13.820,0:56:19.850

S: So I'll be in touch with the formal

permissions forum, and if you would like

0:56:19.850,0:56:23.780

to tailor that in any way or talk

through that I'd be happy to

0:56:23.780,0:56:27.710

um, and we'll keep you posted on kind of

what the final products going to look like,

0:56:27.710,0:56:36.260

and where your oral history will lie in

the archives. B: Okay perfect. S: Thank you so much! B: Thank

0:56:36.260,0:56:42.370

you guys! I appreciate you guys doing

this. This is great. D: Absolutely. S: Thanks take care.